Dynomotion

Group: DynoMotion Message: 11603 From: himykabibble Date: 5/31/2015
Subject: Modbus Questions

I'm considering use Modbus on the KFlop for a number of functions, but I've never really used Modbus, or RS485, so I have a few questions:


1) I assume, to have more than two devices, RS485 would have to be used?


2) With RS485, it should be possible for any device to become master?  I'd rather avoid having the KFlop polling the slaves, if possible.


Any "gotchas" I should be aware of?  Everything I'd be using it for would be a human-speed, so high performance is not a serious concern.  It'll be used for communication between the KFlop and an ATC, PDB, and pendant, and possibly another device or two down the road.


Regards,

Ray L.
Group: DynoMotion Message: 11608 From: Tom Kerekes Date: 6/1/2015
Subject: Re: Modbus Questions
Hi Ray,

I don't think Modbus normally supports multiple Masters.  There is always one fixed Master and the rest are Slaves.  I prefer polling myself.  Its simpler.

KFLOP itself only has a 3.3V LVTTL UART.  To do RS485 an adapter would be needed.

I found this document useful:

Max baud rate for KFLOP is currently 56Kbaud.
Regards

TK
Group: DynoMotion Message: 11609 From: Steve Simpson Date: 6/1/2015
Subject: Re: Modbus Questions
I'm unfamiliar with responding to these Yahoo group e-mails, so bear with me if this does not get to the right place.

Responding to the topic of Modbus on the Kflop, I would like to know if there is any method by which the Kflop can be interfaced to anything thru TCP.

On a related topic, is there a decision on supporting MACH4?

Thanks! 
































On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 2:05 PM, Tom Kerekes tk@... [DynoMotion] <DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Hi Ray,

I don't think Modbus normally supports multiple Masters.  There is always one fixed Master and the rest are Slaves.  I prefer polling myself.  Its simpler.

KFLOP itself only has a 3.3V LVTTL UART.  To do RS485 an adapter would be needed.

I found this document useful:

Max baud rate for KFLOP is currently 56Kbaud.
Regards

TK
Group: DynoMotion Message: 11610 From: himykabibble Date: 6/1/2015
Subject: Re: Modbus Questions
Tom,

Thanks, I'll give that a read.  I suspected Modbus was purely Master/Slave, but couldn't find anything that stated so definitively.  RS-485 can be multi-master.  56KBaud is more than adequate for my needs.  I'm running right now at 9600.  My interest in RS485 is for noise immunity - I have occasional problems with plain RS232.

Regards,
Ray L.
Group: DynoMotion Message: 11611 From: Tom Kerekes Date: 6/1/2015
Subject: Re: Modbus Questions
Hi Steve,

KFLOP doesn't have an Ethernet Port.

Regarding Mach4 we are still looking into it.  If we were to develop a mach4 Plugin it would likely be a year or more before it was ready for widespread use.

Regards
TK


Group: DynoMotion Message: 11612 From: karmannelectric Date: 6/1/2015
Subject: Re: Modbus Questions
'Mach4' is what made me be a DynoMotion convert.... tired of waiting for
documentation for Mach3 after Art sold the business.... 'Not Invented
Here'.... It's funny how the new guy brags about how little to none of the
code was re-used for Mach4.... Kind of feels like waiting for G100 to
actually work....

> Hi Steve,
> KFLOP doesn't have an Ethernet Port.
> Regarding Mach4 we are still looking into it.  If we were to develop a
> mach4 Plugin it would likely be a year or more before it was ready for
> widespread use.
> RegardsTK
>
>
> From: "Steve Simpson steve@... [DynoMotion]"
> <DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com>
> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, June 1, 2015 1:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [DynoMotion] Modbus Questions
>
>   I'm unfamiliar with responding to these Yahoo group e-mails, so bear
> with me if this does not get to the right place.
> Responding to the topic of Modbus on the Kflop, I would like to know if
> there is any method by which the Kflop can be interfaced to anything thru
> TCP.
> On a related topic, is there a decision on supporting MACH4?
> Thanks! 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 2:05 PM, Tom Kerekes tk@... [DynoMotion]
> <DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>   Hi Ray,
> I don't think Modbus normally supports multiple Masters.  There is always
> one fixed Master and the rest are Slaves.  I prefer polling myself.  Its
> simpler.
> KFLOP itself only has a 3.3V LVTTL UART.  To do RS485 an adapter would be
> needed.
> I found this document useful:
> http://www.modbus.org/docs/Modbus_over_serial_line_V1.pdf
> Max baud rate for KFLOP is currently 56Kbaud.
> Regards
> TK
> From: "jagboy1964@... [DynoMotion]"
> <DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com>
> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2015 10:48 PM
> Subject: [DynoMotion] Modbus Questions
>
>   I'm considering use Modbus on the KFlop for a number of functions,
> but I've never really used Modbus, or RS485, so I have a few questions:
> 1) I assume, to have more than two devices, RS485 would have to be used?
> 2) With RS485, it should be possible for any device to become master? 
> I'd rather avoid having the KFlop polling the slaves, if possible.
> Any "gotchas" I should be aware of?  Everything I'd be using it for would
> be a human-speed, so high performance is not a serious concern.  It'll be
> used for communication between the KFlop and an ATC, PDB, and pendant, and
> possibly another device or two down the road.
> Regards,Ray L.
>
>
>
> #yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781 -- #yiv9285102781ygrp-mkp {border:1px
> solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0
> 10px;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid
> #d8d8d8;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-mkp #yiv9285102781hd
> {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px
> 0;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-mkp #yiv9285102781ads
> {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-mkp
> .yiv9285102781ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-mkp
> .yiv9285102781ad p {margin:0;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-mkp
> .yiv9285102781ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-sponsor #yiv9285102781ygrp-lc
> {font-family:Arial;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-sponsor
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-lc #yiv9285102781hd {margin:10px
> 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-sponsor #yiv9285102781ygrp-lc .yiv9285102781ad
> {margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781actions
> {font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781activity
> {background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781activity span {font-weight:700;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781activity span:first-child
> {text-transform:uppercase;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781activity span a
> {color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781activity span span {color:#ff7900;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781activity span .yiv9285102781underline
> {text-decoration:underline;}#yiv9285102781 .yiv9285102781attach
> {clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px
> 0;width:400px;}#yiv9285102781 .yiv9285102781attach div a
> {text-decoration:none;}#yiv9285102781 .yiv9285102781attach img
> {border:none;padding-right:5px;}#yiv9285102781 .yiv9285102781attach
> label {display:block;margin-bottom:5px;}#yiv9285102781
> .yiv9285102781attach label a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv9285102781
> blockquote {margin:0 0 0 4px;}#yiv9285102781 .yiv9285102781bold
> {font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;}#yiv9285102781
> .yiv9285102781bold a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv9285102781
> dd.yiv9285102781last p a
> {font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#yiv9285102781
> dd.yiv9285102781last p span
> {margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#yiv9285102781
> dd.yiv9285102781last p span.yiv9285102781yshortcuts
> {margin-right:0;}#yiv9285102781 div.yiv9285102781attach-table div div a
> {text-decoration:none;}#yiv9285102781 div.yiv9285102781attach-table
> {width:400px;}#yiv9285102781 div.yiv9285102781file-title a,
> #yiv9285102781 div.yiv9285102781file-title a:active, #yiv9285102781
> div.yiv9285102781file-title a:hover, #yiv9285102781
> div.yiv9285102781file-title a:visited
> {text-decoration:none;}#yiv9285102781 div.yiv9285102781photo-title a,
> #yiv9285102781 div.yiv9285102781photo-title a:active, #yiv9285102781
> div.yiv9285102781photo-title a:hover, #yiv9285102781
> div.yiv9285102781photo-title a:visited
> {text-decoration:none;}#yiv9285102781 div#yiv9285102781ygrp-mlmsg
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-msg p a span.yiv9285102781yshortcuts
> {font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;}#yiv9285102781
> .yiv9285102781green {color:#628c2a;}#yiv9285102781
> .yiv9285102781MsoNormal {margin:0 0 0 0;}#yiv9285102781 o
> {font-size:0;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781photos div
> {float:left;width:72px;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781photos div div
> {border:1px solid
> #666666;height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781photos div label
> {color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781reco-category {font-size:77%;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781reco-desc {font-size:77%;}#yiv9285102781
> .yiv9285102781replbq {margin:4px;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-actbar div a:first-child
> {margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica,
> clean, sans-serif;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-mlmsg table
> {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-mlmsg
> select, #yiv9285102781 input, #yiv9285102781 textarea {font:99% Arial,
> Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-mlmsg
> pre, #yiv9285102781 code {font:115% monospace;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-mlmsg #yiv9285102781logo
> {padding-bottom:10px;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-msg p a
> {font-family:Verdana;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-msg
> p#yiv9285102781attach-count span
> {color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-reco
> #yiv9285102781reco-head {color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-reco {margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-sponsor #yiv9285102781ov li a
> {font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-sponsor #yiv9285102781ov li
> {font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-sponsor #yiv9285102781ov ul {margin:0;padding:0 0 0
> 8px;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-text
> {font-family:Georgia;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-text p {margin:0
> 0 1em 0;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-text tt
> {font-size:120%;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-vital ul
> li:last-child {border-right:none !important;}#yiv9285102781
>
>
Group: DynoMotion Message: 11613 From: Dan W Date: 6/1/2015
Subject: Re: Modbus Questions

Steve,
the only way I can think would be to use the RS232 modbus to a PLC that also has an ethernet port. But that is a little cumbersome and spendy. 

But that is what I will be doing shortly, because I have the hardware laying around. Currently my PLC has a serial communication card with 3 more ports. Those connect to an HMI, VFD'S, and servo drives. The PLC then acts as the central hub and the,KFLOP pills the data it needs from the PLC. 

Dan


Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "Steve Simpson steve@... [DynoMotion]" <DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 06/01/2015 3:30 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [DynoMotion] Modbus Questions

 

I'm unfamiliar with responding to these Yahoo group e-mails, so bear with me if this does not get to the right place.

Responding to the topic of Modbus on the Kflop, I would like to know if there is any method by which the Kflop can be interfaced to anything thru TCP.

On a related topic, is there a decision on supporting MACH4?

Thanks! 
































On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 2:05 PM, Tom Kerekes tk@... [DynoMotion] <DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Hi Ray,

I don't think Modbus normally supports multiple Masters.  There is always one fixed Master and the rest are Slaves.  I prefer polling myself.  Its simpler.

KFLOP itself only has a 3.3V LVTTL UART.  To do RS485 an adapter would be needed.

I found this document useful:

Max baud rate for KFLOP is currently 56Kbaud.
Regards

TK
Group: DynoMotion Message: 11617 From: Steve Simpson Date: 6/1/2015
Subject: Re: Modbus Questions
I have products for MACH3 that have been ported to MACH4 because the users will be moving to MACH4.

It is a marketing issue having little to do with the actual merits (or lack thereof) of MACH4.

I currently have a Kflop running the testbed machine with MACH3 and unfortunately, I will have to strip out the Kflop and replace it with a MACH4 compatible motion controller to do final testing on an actual working machine.

On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 7:07 PM, steve@... [DynoMotion] <DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

'Mach4' is what made me be a DynoMotion convert.... tired of waiting for
documentation for Mach3 after Art sold the business.... 'Not Invented
Here'.... It's funny how the new guy brags about how little to none of the
code was re-used for Mach4.... Kind of feels like waiting for G100 to
actually work....

> Hi Steve,
> KFLOP doesn't have an Ethernet Port.
> Regarding Mach4 we are still looking into it.  If we were to develop a
> mach4 Plugin it would likely be a year or more before it was ready for
> widespread use.
> RegardsTK
>
>
> From: "Steve Simpson steve@... [DynoMotion]"
> <DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com>
> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, June 1, 2015 1:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [DynoMotion] Modbus Questions
>
>   I'm unfamiliar with responding to these Yahoo group e-mails, so bear
> with me if this does not get to the right place.
> Responding to the topic of Modbus on the Kflop, I would like to know if
> there is any method by which the Kflop can be interfaced to anything thru
> TCP.
> On a related topic, is there a decision on supporting MACH4?
> Thanks! 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 2:05 PM, Tom Kerekes tk@... [DynoMotion]
> <DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>   Hi Ray,
> I don't think Modbus normally supports multiple Masters.  There is always
> one fixed Master and the rest are Slaves.  I prefer polling myself.  Its
> simpler.
> KFLOP itself only has a 3.3V LVTTL UART.  To do RS485 an adapter would be
> needed.
> I found this document useful:
> http://www.modbus.org/docs/Modbus_over_serial_line_V1.pdf
> Max baud rate for KFLOP is currently 56Kbaud.
> Regards
> TK
> From: "jagboy1964@... [DynoMotion]"
> <DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com>
> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2015 10:48 PM
> Subject: [DynoMotion] Modbus Questions
>
>   I'm considering use Modbus on the KFlop for a number of functions,
> but I've never really used Modbus, or RS485, so I have a few questions:
> 1) I assume, to have more than two devices, RS485 would have to be used?
> 2) With RS485, it should be possible for any device to become master? 
> I'd rather avoid having the KFlop polling the slaves, if possible.
> Any "gotchas" I should be aware of?  Everything I'd be using it for would
> be a human-speed, so high performance is not a serious concern.  It'll be
> used for communication between the KFlop and an ATC, PDB, and pendant, and
> possibly another device or two down the road.
> Regards,Ray L.
>
>
>
> #yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781 -- #yiv9285102781ygrp-mkp {border:1px
> solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0
> 10px;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid
> #d8d8d8;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-mkp #yiv9285102781hd
> {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px
> 0;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-mkp #yiv9285102781ads
> {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-mkp
> .yiv9285102781ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-mkp
> .yiv9285102781ad p {margin:0;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-mkp
> .yiv9285102781ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-sponsor #yiv9285102781ygrp-lc
> {font-family:Arial;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-sponsor
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-lc #yiv9285102781hd {margin:10px
> 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-sponsor #yiv9285102781ygrp-lc .yiv9285102781ad
> {margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781actions
> {font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781activity
> {background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781activity span {font-weight:700;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781activity span:first-child
> {text-transform:uppercase;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781activity span a
> {color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781activity span span {color:#ff7900;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781activity span .yiv9285102781underline
> {text-decoration:underline;}#yiv9285102781 .yiv9285102781attach
> {clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px
> 0;width:400px;}#yiv9285102781 .yiv9285102781attach div a
> {text-decoration:none;}#yiv9285102781 .yiv9285102781attach img
> {border:none;padding-right:5px;}#yiv9285102781 .yiv9285102781attach
> label {display:block;margin-bottom:5px;}#yiv9285102781
> .yiv9285102781attach label a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv9285102781
> blockquote {margin:0 0 0 4px;}#yiv9285102781 .yiv9285102781bold
> {font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;}#yiv9285102781
> .yiv9285102781bold a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv9285102781
> dd.yiv9285102781last p a
> {font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#yiv9285102781
> dd.yiv9285102781last p span
> {margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#yiv9285102781
> dd.yiv9285102781last p span.yiv9285102781yshortcuts
> {margin-right:0;}#yiv9285102781 div.yiv9285102781attach-table div div a
> {text-decoration:none;}#yiv9285102781 div.yiv9285102781attach-table
> {width:400px;}#yiv9285102781 div.yiv9285102781file-title a,
> #yiv9285102781 div.yiv9285102781file-title a:active, #yiv9285102781
> div.yiv9285102781file-title a:hover, #yiv9285102781
> div.yiv9285102781file-title a:visited
> {text-decoration:none;}#yiv9285102781 div.yiv9285102781photo-title a,
> #yiv9285102781 div.yiv9285102781photo-title a:active, #yiv9285102781
> div.yiv9285102781photo-title a:hover, #yiv9285102781
> div.yiv9285102781photo-title a:visited
> {text-decoration:none;}#yiv9285102781 div#yiv9285102781ygrp-mlmsg
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-msg p a span.yiv9285102781yshortcuts
> {font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;}#yiv9285102781
> .yiv9285102781green {color:#628c2a;}#yiv9285102781
> .yiv9285102781MsoNormal {margin:0 0 0 0;}#yiv9285102781 o
> {font-size:0;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781photos div
> {float:left;width:72px;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781photos div div
> {border:1px solid
> #666666;height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781photos div label
> {color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781reco-category {font-size:77%;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781reco-desc {font-size:77%;}#yiv9285102781
> .yiv9285102781replbq {margin:4px;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-actbar div a:first-child
> {margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica,
> clean, sans-serif;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-mlmsg table
> {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-mlmsg
> select, #yiv9285102781 input, #yiv9285102781 textarea {font:99% Arial,
> Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-mlmsg
> pre, #yiv9285102781 code {font:115% monospace;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-mlmsg #yiv9285102781logo
> {padding-bottom:10px;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-msg p a
> {font-family:Verdana;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-msg
> p#yiv9285102781attach-count span
> {color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-reco
> #yiv9285102781reco-head {color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-reco {margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-sponsor #yiv9285102781ov li a
> {font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-sponsor #yiv9285102781ov li
> {font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-sponsor #yiv9285102781ov ul {margin:0;padding:0 0 0
> 8px;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-text
> {font-family:Georgia;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-text p {margin:0
> 0 1em 0;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-text tt
> {font-size:120%;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-vital ul
> li:last-child {border-right:none !important;}#yiv9285102781
>
>
Group: DynoMotion Message: 11618 From: Steve Simpson Date: 6/1/2015
Subject: Re: Modbus Questions
Dan,

Thanks, that is what I was asking. I know there is no Ethernet port on the Kflop board.

Currently, I have an Arduino DUE board with an Ethernet 'shield' (no idea why them call the daughter cards 'shields', but in Arduino Land, a program is called a 'sketch'  . . . Italian for program, maybe?)

In any case, the DUE board runs the Modbus and can communicate with other devices in a number of different ways, the least desirable of which would be thru a virtual Serial COM port. I was looking for the best solution for getting data in and out of the Kflop. If there is a hardware add-on solution, then that would be the first choice. Second would be the fastest interface available on the Kflop. It seems a lot of chips these days have SPI and I2C built into the hardware and I just read a forum post from Tom K. where he states there is a way to communicate with the Kflop by talking to a DLL.

There are a lot of ways top skin this cat. I was just inquiring if there was a 'best' or 'traditional' rout to take.

Thanks for your comments!

On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 7:24 PM, Dan W engnerdan@... [DynoMotion] <DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 


Steve,
the only way I can think would be to use the RS232 modbus to a PLC that also has an ethernet port. But that is a little cumbersome and spendy. 

But that is what I will be doing shortly, because I have the hardware laying around. Currently my PLC has a serial communication card with 3 more ports. Those connect to an HMI, VFD'S, and servo drives. The PLC then acts as the central hub and the,KFLOP pills the data it needs from the PLC. 

Dan


Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "Steve Simpson steve@... [DynoMotion]" <DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 06/01/2015 3:30 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [DynoMotion] Modbus Questions

 

I'm unfamiliar with responding to these Yahoo group e-mails, so bear with me if this does not get to the right place.

Responding to the topic of Modbus on the Kflop, I would like to know if there is any method by which the Kflop can be interfaced to anything thru TCP.

On a related topic, is there a decision on supporting MACH4?

Thanks! 
































On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 2:05 PM, Tom Kerekes tk@... [DynoMotion] <DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Hi Ray,

I don't think Modbus normally supports multiple Masters.  There is always one fixed Master and the rest are Slaves.  I prefer polling myself.  Its simpler.

KFLOP itself only has a 3.3V LVTTL UART.  To do RS485 an adapter would be needed.

I found this document useful:

Max baud rate for KFLOP is currently 56Kbaud.
Regards

TK
Group: DynoMotion Message: 11619 From: Steve Simpson Date: 6/1/2015
Subject: Re: Modbus Questions
Modbus spec is only 16 bit registers and no bad data recovery, so unless you really need to communicate with a device that is ALREADY and ONLY Modbus, You might consider another avenue.

On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 4:18 PM, jagboy1964@... [DynoMotion] <DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Tom,


Thanks, I'll give that a read.  I suspected Modbus was purely Master/Slave, but couldn't find anything that stated so definitively.  RS-485 can be multi-master.  56KBaud is more than adequate for my needs.  I'm running right now at 9600.  My interest in RS485 is for noise immunity - I have occasional problems with plain RS232.

Regards,
Ray L.
Group: DynoMotion Message: 11623 From: Russ Larson Date: 6/2/2015
Subject: Re: Modbus Questions

Steve,

 

I think this is driving several people to Dynomotion or other proven solutions like KmotionCNC.  They are quickly losing market share...

 

KmotionCNC is a great piece of software, which I run on my big mill.  My little mill has MACH3 which I tried several times to get to run on MACH4.  I have motion working in MACH4 using an ESS, but the pokeys plugin and many other features are just not working.  This is really disappointing after they have spent over four years in development.  They refuse to share the change log so you can't tell what is getting fixed in the releases.  It is probably another year away based on feedback from various sources on the forum.

 

I ran the MACH3 plugin for KMOTION in the beginning but honestly, the delayed response for pause when using the plugin pushed me over to KmotionCNC.  You can pause instantly.  If KmotionCNC had the MACH4 screen set nothing could touch it for a solid system.  I find that KmotionCNC does exactly what I tell it to do and it is very stable.  Mach3 often would do something totally unexpected, but most of the time it worked fine.

 

Russ

 

 

From: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2015 8:08 PM
To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [DynoMotion] Modbus Questions

 

 

'Mach4' is what made me be a DynoMotion convert.... tired of waiting for
documentation for Mach3 after Art sold the business.... 'Not Invented
Here'.... It's funny how the new guy brags about how little to none of the
code was re-used for Mach4.... Kind of feels like waiting for G100 to
actually work....

> Hi Steve,
> KFLOP doesn't have an Ethernet Port.
> Regarding Mach4 we are still looking into it.  If we were to develop a
> mach4 Plugin it would likely be a year or more before it was ready for
> widespread use.
> RegardsTK
>
>
> From: "Steve Simpson steve@... [DynoMotion]"
> <DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com>
> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, June 1, 2015 1:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [DynoMotion] Modbus Questions
>
>   I'm unfamiliar with responding to these Yahoo group e-mails, so bear
> with me if this does not get to the right place.
> Responding to the topic of Modbus on the Kflop, I would like to know if
> there is any method by which the Kflop can be interfaced to anything thru
> TCP.
> On a related topic, is there a decision on supporting MACH4?
> Thanks! 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 2:05 PM, Tom Kerekes tk@... [DynoMotion]
> <DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>   Hi Ray,
> I don't think Modbus normally supports multiple Masters.  There is always
> one fixed Master and the rest are Slaves.  I prefer polling myself.  Its
> simpler.
> KFLOP itself only has a 3.3V LVTTL UART.  To do RS485 an adapter would be
> needed.
> I found this document useful:
> http://www.modbus.org/docs/Modbus_over_serial_line_V1.pdf
> Max baud rate for KFLOP is currently 56Kbaud.
> Regards
> TK
> From: "jagboy1964@... [DynoMotion]"
> <DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com>
> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2015 10:48 PM
> Subject: [DynoMotion] Modbus Questions
>
>   I'm considering use Modbus on the KFlop for a number of functions,
> but I've never really used Modbus, or RS485, so I have a few questions:
> 1) I assume, to have more than two devices, RS485 would have to be used?
> 2) With RS485, it should be possible for any device to become master? 
> I'd rather avoid having the KFlop polling the slaves, if possible.
> Any "gotchas" I should be aware of?  Everything I'd be using it for would
> be a human-speed, so high performance is not a serious concern.  It'll be
> used for communication between the KFlop and an ATC, PDB, and pendant, and
> possibly another device or two down the road.
> Regards,Ray L.
>
>
>
> #yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781 -- #yiv9285102781ygrp-mkp {border:1px
> solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0
> 10px;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid
> #d8d8d8;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-mkp #yiv9285102781hd
> {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px
> 0;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-mkp #yiv9285102781ads
> {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-mkp
> .yiv9285102781ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-mkp
> .yiv9285102781ad p {margin:0;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-mkp
> .yiv9285102781ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-sponsor #yiv9285102781ygrp-lc
> {font-family:Arial;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-sponsor
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-lc #yiv9285102781hd {margin:10px
> 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-sponsor #yiv9285102781ygrp-lc .yiv9285102781ad
> {margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781actions
> {font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781activity
> {background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781activity span {font-weight:700;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781activity span:first-child
> {text-transform:uppercase;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781activity span a
> {color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781activity span span {color:#ff7900;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781activity span .yiv9285102781underline
> {text-decoration:underline;}#yiv9285102781 .yiv9285102781attach
> {clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px
> 0;width:400px;}#yiv9285102781 .yiv9285102781attach div a
> {text-decoration:none;}#yiv9285102781 .yiv9285102781attach img
> {border:none;padding-right:5px;}#yiv9285102781 .yiv9285102781attach
> label {display:block;margin-bottom:5px;}#yiv9285102781
> .yiv9285102781attach label a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv9285102781
> blockquote {margin:0 0 0 4px;}#yiv9285102781 .yiv9285102781bold
> {font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;}#yiv9285102781
> .yiv9285102781bold a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv9285102781
> dd.yiv9285102781last p a
> {font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#yiv9285102781
> dd.yiv9285102781last p span
> {margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#yiv9285102781
> dd.yiv9285102781last p span.yiv9285102781yshortcuts
> {margin-right:0;}#yiv9285102781 div.yiv9285102781attach-table div div a
> {text-decoration:none;}#yiv9285102781 div.yiv9285102781attach-table
> {width:400px;}#yiv9285102781 div.yiv9285102781file-title a,
> #yiv9285102781 div.yiv9285102781file-title a:active, #yiv9285102781
> div.yiv9285102781file-title a:hover, #yiv9285102781
> div.yiv9285102781file-title a:visited
> {text-decoration:none;}#yiv9285102781 div.yiv9285102781photo-title a,
> #yiv9285102781 div.yiv9285102781photo-title a:active, #yiv9285102781
> div.yiv9285102781photo-title a:hover, #yiv9285102781
> div.yiv9285102781photo-title a:visited
> {text-decoration:none;}#yiv9285102781 div#yiv9285102781ygrp-mlmsg
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-msg p a span.yiv9285102781yshortcuts
> {font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;}#yiv9285102781
> .yiv9285102781green {color:#628c2a;}#yiv9285102781
> .yiv9285102781MsoNormal {margin:0 0 0 0;}#yiv9285102781 o
> {font-size:0;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781photos div
> {float:left;width:72px;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781photos div div
> {border:1px solid
> #666666;height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781photos div label
> {color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781reco-category {font-size:77%;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781reco-desc {font-size:77%;}#yiv9285102781
> .yiv9285102781replbq {margin:4px;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-actbar div a:first-child
> {margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica,
> clean, sans-serif;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-mlmsg table
> {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-mlmsg
> select, #yiv9285102781 input, #yiv9285102781 textarea {font:99% Arial,
> Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-mlmsg
> pre, #yiv9285102781 code {font:115% monospace;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-mlmsg #yiv9285102781logo
> {padding-bottom:10px;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-msg p a
> {font-family:Verdana;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-msg
> p#yiv9285102781attach-count span
> {color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-reco
> #yiv9285102781reco-head {color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-reco {margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-sponsor #yiv9285102781ov li a
> {font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-sponsor #yiv9285102781ov li
> {font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-sponsor #yiv9285102781ov ul {margin:0;padding:0 0 0
> 8px;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-text
> {font-family:Georgia;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-text p {margin:0
> 0 1em 0;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-text tt
> {font-size:120%;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-vital ul
> li:last-child {border-right:none !important;}#yiv9285102781
>
>
Group: DynoMotion Message: 11624 From: Russ Larson Date: 6/2/2015
Subject: Re: Modbus Questions

Interesting note, today on the MACH4 forum, Steve Stallings from PMDX released the MACH4 log files.  Someone much have been listening, you can see they clearly have been working on lots of stuff per the log file.

 

TK and the Dynomotion team will continue to see more and more people moving to their camp, something that works is like the saying "a bird in the hand, is better than two in the bush "  LOL

 

 

 

From: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 8:29 AM
To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [DynoMotion] Modbus Questions

 

 

Steve,

 

I think this is driving several people to Dynomotion or other proven solutions like KmotionCNC.  They are quickly losing market share...

 

KmotionCNC is a great piece of software, which I run on my big mill.  My little mill has MACH3 which I tried several times to get to run on MACH4.  I have motion working in MACH4 using an ESS, but the pokeys plugin and many other features are just not working.  This is really disappointing after they have spent over four years in development.  They refuse to share the change log so you can't tell what is getting fixed in the releases.  It is probably another year away based on feedback from various sources on the forum.

 

I ran the MACH3 plugin for KMOTION in the beginning but honestly, the delayed response for pause when using the plugin pushed me over to KmotionCNC.  You can pause instantly.  If KmotionCNC had the MACH4 screen set nothing could touch it for a solid system.  I find that KmotionCNC does exactly what I tell it to do and it is very stable.  Mach3 often would do something totally unexpected, but most of the time it worked fine.

 

Russ

 

 

From: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2015 8:08 PM
To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [DynoMotion] Modbus Questions

 

 

'Mach4' is what made me be a DynoMotion convert.... tired of waiting for
documentation for Mach3 after Art sold the business.... 'Not Invented
Here'.... It's funny how the new guy brags about how little to none of the
code was re-used for Mach4.... Kind of feels like waiting for G100 to
actually work....

> Hi Steve,
> KFLOP doesn't have an Ethernet Port.
> Regarding Mach4 we are still looking into it.  If we were to develop a
> mach4 Plugin it would likely be a year or more before it was ready for
> widespread use.
> RegardsTK
>
>
> From: "Steve Simpson steve@... [DynoMotion]"
> <DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com>
> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, June 1, 2015 1:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [DynoMotion] Modbus Questions
>
>   I'm unfamiliar with responding to these Yahoo group e-mails, so bear
> with me if this does not get to the right place.
> Responding to the topic of Modbus on the Kflop, I would like to know if
> there is any method by which the Kflop can be interfaced to anything thru
> TCP.
> On a related topic, is there a decision on supporting MACH4?
> Thanks! 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 2:05 PM, Tom Kerekes tk@... [DynoMotion]
> <DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>   Hi Ray,
> I don't think Modbus normally supports multiple Masters.  There is always
> one fixed Master and the rest are Slaves.  I prefer polling myself.  Its
> simpler.
> KFLOP itself only has a 3.3V LVTTL UART.  To do RS485 an adapter would be
> needed.
> I found this document useful:
> http://www.modbus.org/docs/Modbus_over_serial_line_V1.pdf
> Max baud rate for KFLOP is currently 56Kbaud.
> Regards
> TK
> From: "jagboy1964@... [DynoMotion]"
> <DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com>
> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2015 10:48 PM
> Subject: [DynoMotion] Modbus Questions
>
>   I'm considering use Modbus on the KFlop for a number of functions,
> but I've never really used Modbus, or RS485, so I have a few questions:
> 1) I assume, to have more than two devices, RS485 would have to be used?
> 2) With RS485, it should be possible for any device to become master? 
> I'd rather avoid having the KFlop polling the slaves, if possible.
> Any "gotchas" I should be aware of?  Everything I'd be using it for would
> be a human-speed, so high performance is not a serious concern.  It'll be
> used for communication between the KFlop and an ATC, PDB, and pendant, and
> possibly another device or two down the road.
> Regards,Ray L.
>
>
>
> #yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781 -- #yiv9285102781ygrp-mkp {border:1px
> solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0
> 10px;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid
> #d8d8d8;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-mkp #yiv9285102781hd
> {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px
> 0;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-mkp #yiv9285102781ads
> {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-mkp
> .yiv9285102781ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-mkp
> .yiv9285102781ad p {margin:0;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-mkp
> .yiv9285102781ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-sponsor #yiv9285102781ygrp-lc
> {font-family:Arial;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-sponsor
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-lc #yiv9285102781hd {margin:10px
> 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-sponsor #yiv9285102781ygrp-lc .yiv9285102781ad
> {margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781actions
> {font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781activity
> {background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781activity span {font-weight:700;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781activity span:first-child
> {text-transform:uppercase;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781activity span a
> {color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781activity span span {color:#ff7900;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781activity span .yiv9285102781underline
> {text-decoration:underline;}#yiv9285102781 .yiv9285102781attach
> {clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px
> 0;width:400px;}#yiv9285102781 .yiv9285102781attach div a
> {text-decoration:none;}#yiv9285102781 .yiv9285102781attach img
> {border:none;padding-right:5px;}#yiv9285102781 .yiv9285102781attach
> label {display:block;margin-bottom:5px;}#yiv9285102781
> .yiv9285102781attach label a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv9285102781
> blockquote {margin:0 0 0 4px;}#yiv9285102781 .yiv9285102781bold
> {font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;}#yiv9285102781
> .yiv9285102781bold a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv9285102781
> dd.yiv9285102781last p a
> {font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#yiv9285102781
> dd.yiv9285102781last p span
> {margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#yiv9285102781
> dd.yiv9285102781last p span.yiv9285102781yshortcuts
> {margin-right:0;}#yiv9285102781 div.yiv9285102781attach-table div div a
> {text-decoration:none;}#yiv9285102781 div.yiv9285102781attach-table
> {width:400px;}#yiv9285102781 div.yiv9285102781file-title a,
> #yiv9285102781 div.yiv9285102781file-title a:active, #yiv9285102781
> div.yiv9285102781file-title a:hover, #yiv9285102781
> div.yiv9285102781file-title a:visited
> {text-decoration:none;}#yiv9285102781 div.yiv9285102781photo-title a,
> #yiv9285102781 div.yiv9285102781photo-title a:active, #yiv9285102781
> div.yiv9285102781photo-title a:hover, #yiv9285102781
> div.yiv9285102781photo-title a:visited
> {text-decoration:none;}#yiv9285102781 div#yiv9285102781ygrp-mlmsg
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-msg p a span.yiv9285102781yshortcuts
> {font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;}#yiv9285102781
> .yiv9285102781green {color:#628c2a;}#yiv9285102781
> .yiv9285102781MsoNormal {margin:0 0 0 0;}#yiv9285102781 o
> {font-size:0;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781photos div
> {float:left;width:72px;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781photos div div
> {border:1px solid
> #666666;height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781photos div label
> {color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781reco-category {font-size:77%;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781reco-desc {font-size:77%;}#yiv9285102781
> .yiv9285102781replbq {margin:4px;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-actbar div a:first-child
> {margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica,
> clean, sans-serif;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-mlmsg table
> {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-mlmsg
> select, #yiv9285102781 input, #yiv9285102781 textarea {font:99% Arial,
> Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-mlmsg
> pre, #yiv9285102781 code {font:115% monospace;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-mlmsg #yiv9285102781logo
> {padding-bottom:10px;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-msg p a
> {font-family:Verdana;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-msg
> p#yiv9285102781attach-count span
> {color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-reco
> #yiv9285102781reco-head {color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-reco {margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-sponsor #yiv9285102781ov li a
> {font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-sponsor #yiv9285102781ov li
> {font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;}#yiv9285102781
> #yiv9285102781ygrp-sponsor #yiv9285102781ov ul {margin:0;padding:0 0 0
> 8px;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-text
> {font-family:Georgia;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-text p {margin:0
> 0 1em 0;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-text tt
> {font-size:120%;}#yiv9285102781 #yiv9285102781ygrp-vital ul
> li:last-child {border-right:none !important;}#yiv9285102781
>
>